Private Play test of Bridges by Mr. Fin

[kach]

I am very please to announce that we will be running a private test of the map Bridges by Mr. Fin this coming Saturday. I can still remember the first time I saw a screenshot from the map and how beautiful it looked.

Mr. Fin has put an unbelievable amount of work, reworking, and testing of his wonderful creation.

Map Details (by Mr. Fin)

The Axis are attempting to escape Eastwards from Northern Italy with a train cargo of booty.
To do this they need to fix the a train with spares on a truck.

Trouble is that the Allies are on to them!

The map is made up of 3 open areas connected by road and rail tunnels.
The objectives are the vehicles, the road tunnel barrier and 2 rail bridge barriers.

Axis have to get the Spares Truck to the Train, fix the train, then get the Train
back across the bridges to the waiting cargo to win.

Time Limit: 30 minutes. Spawn time: 30 seconds allies, 20 seconds axis

After a very long time the map is nearing completion and requires some final testing (the vo announcements are still being completed). This is where we come in:

BRIDGES PRIVATE PLAY TEST

Saturday Feb 4th
time: 4pm Texas/Winnipeg-time / 5pm NY-time / 10pm UK-time / 11pm Stockholm/Hamburg-time
server: ]UBC[ |TheRiver| 9maps
IP: 194.105.135.3:27960
pw: ask McNite or Kach or check McNite's msn status
Map: Bridges by Mr. Fin

Agreements / Additional Rules
As this is a private play test we agree to not distribute the map at all.

This play test is open to all ]UBC[ members, Mr. Fin, guests of Mr. Fin's. Anyone else wishing to participate may indicate that by posting in this thread. A password for the server will be made available prior to the play test.


Sign-Up's ;D
Kach-->

[McNite]

I ll do the server-admin stuff and everything and will close the server a bit before the playtest. The map will be redirected, so nobody needs to worry about "where do i get the map".

To provide some effective feedback to Mr. Fin I suggest that all testers should be on Teamspeak, and also get their key for screenshots sorted out
If i get the idea right, its a very final playtest which means we r hunting down issues occuring in the gameplay? Or do we look for graphical things as well? Maybe we need a more specified idea what to look for.

Is it possible taht we get a detailed list of objectives for the teams on here? Maybe from the .objdata file? And the commandmap as a posted pic? That would help getting an idea about what we r going to test.

[2ndBadKarma]

VUPAPAPAAAAA

I will be there. ;D

[ChinaGirl]

I'm still not sure if I can make it or not.

Still too many Chinese New Year things going on with the family.

Hummmm....

maybe instead of a medic, I could be a covert op, steal my wife's pants, and sneak down to my computer room in the basement tonight and......

China

[Navy Chief]

Well im not sure if i can make it at all......If it is okay if i come late because ill be at the shootin range in winnipeg from 8:00 to 4:00 so i might come late......Probably areound 30 mins late depending what i am doing after shootin. Mabye if i use aimbots in RL mabye i could get off the shootin range early and get my marksman badge! ;D ;D

[kach]

Hello people,

Mr. Fin was kind enough to forward the Object Data from the map to me in MS Word form so I thought I would edit it and reproduce it here for anyone interested in getting an idea about the map.

Map Description:

Axis "Escape with the train cargo: Fix the train with the spares on the truck and get the train back across the map to the cargo. Destroy the Truck Barrier. Repair the rail bridges." (You have to first get the truck past the barrier and to the train with the spare parts, repair the train, repair the bridges and go).


Allies "Prevent the truck from delivering the train spares. Stop Axis from fixing their train and getting across to the cargo. Construct the Truck Barrier and Prevent the Axis from repairing the rail bridges." (You have build the truck barrier, and fight the axis back all the way as the truck and the train do not go backwards every inch forward they make is progress, I believe that the truck, train, and sections of the bridge can be damaged).


Overall "The Axis are attempting to escape with a train cargo of 'special interest'. The Allies must prevent the Axis train from being fixed with the spares on the truck and reaching it's cargo."

// Axis Objective Descriptions
"Primary Objective:**Get the spares truck to the train."
"Primary Objective:**Get the train across to the cargo."
"Primary Objective:**Destroy the boathouse truck barrier."
"Primary Objective:**repair the reservoir rail bridge."
"Primary Objective:**Repair the boathouse rail bridge."
"Secondary Objective:**Construct the command post."
"Secondary Objective:**Prevent Allies from constructing the command post."


// Allied Objective Descriptions
"Primary Objective:**Stop the spares truck from getting to the train."
"Primary Objective:**Stop the train from reaching the cargo."
"Primary Objective:**Construct the boathouse truck barrier."
"Primary Objective:**Don't allow Axis to repair the reservoir bridge."
"Primary Objective:**Don't allow Axis to repair the boathouse bridge."
"Secondary Objective:**Prevent Axis from constructing the command post."
"Secondary Objective:**Construct the Command post."

I sure hope that helps everyone. Please remember we are going to be helping Mr. Fin with the testing of his fine project so please take notes and screen shots of anything you see out of order or that does not make sense.

Thanks for your participation,

Kach

[McNite]

Here come my first impressions after the maptest of bridges yesterday.

About the graphical detail and atmosphere:
that a awesome. My fav is the roof and walls of the destroyed house at some tunnel exit. Its a bit at the limits of average computers though, I didn't get steady 76 FPS with a radeon x800Pro with 256MB and a 3GHz AMD.

Command map:
Can it be that the spawn flags don't have description names in the command map? Also I was searching for ammo quite a bit, but only found health in that boathouse.

Location of supply:
Command post is ok. Seems there s only 1 health crate, and its located where the defenders set up a barrier. That might be a bit unlucky as crates usually should support the attackers.

Overal gameplay:
I m not a fan of large maps, and this certainly is one. I checked travel times on several runs and i think the maximum running distance was about 30 secs to the truck. I don't like to run 30 secs to a truck. Especially not when its plain open field, and the only way to get there unharmed would be crawling behind walls (make it 3 mins traveltime then) while the snipers on the other side of the lake are having a good time. But that s a thing about the layout, and it might be popular on spammy fragservers.

Getting the truck moving is seriously hard for Axis because there are 2 stationary MGs covering the area, and all Axis has is a small rabbit hole to emerge from. That s a sure gameplay killer. There needs to be at least 1 more exit, preferably moved towards the MG in the corner. Also i d make both MGs constructibles which would enforce defending teamplay too.

Movement in the map wasn't pleasing me, as i got stuck on too many things, especially on the railbridges and rails. Maybe some more clipping would help there. In general

The tug:
For some strange reason it seems to be real hard to kill ppl in the tug. I know i shot 6 rounds at kach but didnt hurt him, and I saw 2ndbadKarma throw a grenade into the tug and it didnt kill.
Then inside the tug i felt that its hard to stay in one place. the instrument panels should be vertical so u won't get on them all the time and to give a bit more space.

I think that s it so far.

[kach]

Time for my two cents as well.

I did take a couple of screenies of little things, but I have just edited those and passed them onto Mr. Fin directly.

The easiest way form me to provide my feedback would be to say, everything McNite said is what I want to say, as I agree with most of it (except I like big maps, especially without fog).

I said yesterday that playing bridges was for me like participating in a living breathing painting. The beauty and complexity of it are really something to behold. As I do some mapping now the scope of this thing is actually quite scary. I must also point out that the music is really an excellent addition to the map.

Here are some things I observed:

MG's - the two MG's at the start of the map are very powerful and seem to give the allies too much of an advantage. I would like to see them start as constructables thereby forcing the allied engineers to chose what to do first (ie. MG's, mines, or the barrier). I would even consider removing the roof over the one MG with one so that an F.O. could take the gun out.

Command Map and Spawns - Having played a much earlier version of this map I was a little lost in the beginning. With the overall colour of this map being similar I lost my bearing a few times. I would definitely like to have clearly marked areas on the command map, and some stronger in game signage (if feasible). With the spawns jumping around as much as they do a quick sign on the way out would really help (plus this will retain new players to the map by allowing them to learn it quickly).

Train - I did notice that the train was kind of difficult to know where you could shoot through and where not. One of my riflenades that I thought was easily clear of the frame bounced inside and killed myself and a teammate (V45 - I say that often). As much as I would like to claim that McNite just couldn't hit me but I was on top of the train and yes he must have hit me at least one in six I should think. I did also notice that as an engineer there are areas of the train that you can repair it, and areas where you cannot. I think you should be able to repair it anywhere, just like the tank in goldrush/fueldump.

Final Allied Spawn - I would just like to see it a short distance away from where the rails go. I feel that in a big match this spawn is just to close to the end of map, and the rails. Perhaps and equal distance from the Axis spawn.

These are my few suggestions, thanks to everyone that participated and please add your suggestions to this thread. Mr. Fin thanks for a great map and the opportunity to play test it for you.

Kach

[zardette]

Hi All,

Here are my thoughts on the map:

A very panoramic map that expands both the imagination and creativity of a "winter dream" in an Italian setting.
A wonderfully playful map with many opportunities for a "hide and seek" type of game play (something I enjoy). A map that promotes strategic team effort in order to move/destroy the tug. A strong awareness of the game is required and certainly not a map for those who prefer a reflex type of game style. I would best describe this map as a "chess like game" where the players need strategy on their side. I felt that the test play on Saturday didn't do it justice fully. It is difficult to wholly appreciate and test a map of this size and complexity without extensive play and group discussion.

I look forward to playing this map on a larger server with a new PC..... as it was quite stressful on my current one (my birthday is coming soon and I live in hope). The aliasing makes it look less attractive at the lower resolution needed for a playable frame rate. There are a few
bottle necks as well (as Kach and McNite have outlined), especially in the first tunnel where the axis are particularly exposed. (Zardor was having "multi-kills" on the machine gun, and was almost invulnerable.
Enjoyable to witness only if you are on the same team.) Removing the MG may help the situation giving the opportunity for a solider with ammo limitations to provide the backup ?

- that's all for now folks - keep up the good work Mr. Fin.

Zardette

[zardor]

Hello all,

First, thanks to Mr Fin for devoting 2 years of his life to bring us a impressive new map. Hopefully, he won't need as much time to put the final touches on what is an immensely detailed map.

I agree in general on the comments already posted on here, but I will add some more details and suggestions of my own.
Firstly, I'll say a few things on game play, and then on the graphics (as game play comes before graphics!)

Although the map is big, very big, the flow is quite linear, following the road and the rail lines. This has good and bad points. Its good in that if focuses the battles and conflicts in specific areas, guaranteeing a action filled experience. However, the bad points are that there's a risk that if the battle areas are unbalanced, they can become choke points for the axis. The bridge across the reservoir is a very good battle zone, but the axis can still make progress. However, the tunnel exit above the truck is a major bottleneck; a small group of allies can easily hold back the axis indefinitely.

(I also played the beta4 version of the map on the SNL server tonight, with plenty players on there. That tunnel exit was total carnage for the axis on there too, both when moving the truck and the train. Great fun for the axis medics
They got the truck through eventually, but had to go via the road tunnel, and even that was a close thing with a lot of luck involved.)


There really needs to be another exit point from that tunnel. A number of options for this could be:
* An interconnecting tunnel down to the road tunnel inside the road barrier (and make the road barrier narrower, so players can get past. (Can a satchel charge blow the barrier?) Might need to make access to the tunnel via an axis only door so the allies can't camp the truck in the road tunnel.
*a side exit along the cliff, coming out above the MG, but out of its line of fire. Would also make that MG more vulnerable)
*Come through the drains - there is already a drainage pipe coming out in the frozen river, and a pathway and steps back up behind the MG. Perhaps the other end could be connected up somewhere at the Dam, (the tunnel would be nicer, but the levels and slope might be all wrong.

Also, the MG's should be weakened. The one in the bunker is almost invulnerable - it either needs to loose its concrete cover, or else take the gun out and let a Soldier carry his own gun in there. The other MG on the road might be ok if you can make it attackable, either by coming along the cliff above it or else coming up the steps from the drain behind it. Also, I tried to panzer it from inside the bridge, but couldn't get a line onto it through the trees and telegraph poles and the bridge metalwork.

Now, when this bottleneck is fixed, then the choke point may move elsewhere - can't tell for sure at this stage. There will have to be more play testing at that point.


Other playability comments:
The spawn points do move around a lot - this can be confusing. It's ok once you’ve played the map a good few times, but it might be very off putting for new players. Don’t know how you would simplify this though.......but more signage would be better. The chalk marks in the tunnel are a good idea, but I think you need something a little less subtle........

The train itself is very hard to get into, almost impossible when being shot at. Perhaps the doors can be widened, so players can get in easier, and the allies can shoot them easier? Also, I always tend to overshoot the side ladders when climbing in, and nearly end up on the roof. It might be better to put a separate ladder at the back for climbing on the roof, and shorten the side ladders.

It's a long drive around the reservoir. One time, the allies successfully held the truck at the shed on the dam for a significant time, since they had easily available health and ammo in the shed. Perhaps put a axis only door on there.

There’s something funny about the MG on the tower in the reservoir – it jumps up and down a bit when I swing it around .

Another suggestion would be to limit the map to 15mins, and give time bonuses for getting the truck and starting the train. (bit like dessert temple) At least this would mean that if the axis is getting overwhelmed, the pain will be over sooner........

Now, onto the graphics. I must say that this is the most detailed ET map I have ever seen. The attention to detail is amazing. All the 'dead areas' on the map, or at least those areas that would be 'dead' on most other maps, are fully accessible and well designed, with ladders to get back out of them. All the backs of the buildings and walls,
and all of the roofs, are properly done, unlike many lesser maps (1944_cherbourg anyone - yuck....)
I like the minefield touch too ;D
I can't tell if this (extra) geometric load affects performance, or if it has been properly sectored off - I will let some other mapping expert such as Kach pass judgment on that. But the map does put a heavy load on the system – I couldn’t get above 20fps when playing on SNL tonight, and that was even when I dropped the resolution down to 1024x768. It’s probably GPU bound, but I do need to check if it’s the CPU that’s not able to keep up (I’ll test that later……)
Considering the immense amount of geometry and texture detail in the map, the amount of graphical glitches that I could spot so far were relatively few, about a dozen or so. I will send those on separately to Mr Fin.
There are a couple of floating textures, and walls with no foundations, and there are a few 'pools of light' in the tunnels with no light bulb or lantern nearby. Also, the command post is very dark, so dark that I couldn't tell if it was axis or allies!
But these are all relatively minor issues, compared to the overall complexity and beauty of the map.

Anyway, good job Mr. Fin, I’m looking forward to seeing it out of Beta, and Shoving that train around the final version.

Zardor.

[2ndBadKarma]

admin said:

.

The tug:
For some strange reason it seems to be real hard to kill ppl in the tug. I know i shot 6 rounds at kach but didnt hurt him, and I saw 2ndbadKarma throw a grenade into the tug and it didnt kill.
Then inside the tug i felt that its hard to stay in one place. the instrument panels should be vertical so u won't get on them all the time and to give a bit more space.

My nade bounced of the tug. It was inside though. Shooting a panzer on the tug doorway dosnt kill the one inside!

[zardor]

Hi,
A couple more comments:
It takes 5 grenades to damage the truck, (4 and a tiny bit actually)
This means that one low-level engineer can't take it out on his own. Is this intentional?
The barbed wire in the tunnel at the train start location is the nice and soft type. I'm used to getting shredded by that kind of thing, and i miss the "zardor died" messages
The three train bridges look very similar, but on some of them I can jump up onto the 'curved' bits on top, and on the others I can't. Can you check that too?

Zardor.

[kach]

Kach here,

Mr. Fin has asked me to post his reply to this thread on his behalf, so here goes:

Hello UBC people

Firstly thank you very much for your time to try out the bridges map.
Secondly, thank you for your comments, feedback and ideas.

I have thought about the issues you mentioned and have decided to do the following to the map:

Boathouse area (middle bit)
Constructible mgs -
I agree with this totally. There is a race at the start of the map to get objs built and it is easier for the allies – (even with the truck barrier being further away from the allies spawn than the truck from the axis spawn). The pill box is a tough obstacle, which I think it should be, but the gun in it should have to be constructed.
I don’t agree that the roof of the pill box should be open to artillery strikes because
snipers and panzerfausts can quite easily deal with players in there.

Another route into the boathouse area to lessen bottleneck problem –
This needs to be dealt with but I’m not going to build another small tunnel that leads
to the road tunnel. Instead I’m going to do two things – 1. extend the ‘drainage tunnel’ under the tracks back further into Tunnel 2. and add small dividing sections that alternate along it from side to side to hide behind – presently we can see right the way along it.
2. Redevelop the main tunnel entrance to the area by adding pillared foot-tunnels
to each side of the main tunnel. One will go as far back as the cp and the other will go all the way back to the curve. So now there will in effect be 4 exits at this point. An obstacle will cover the foot-tunnel on the left from the pill box – (theres nothing wrong with tin sheds  )
2b. Am considering making the steps from the main tunnel to the road barrier partially
covered ie. Wall them in – but will see how this looks first – I like the cascade of steps down there.

The mg by the road bridge needs to be attackable by grenades hurled from the slope above it and generally a little more exposed.

Reservoir section (North/Axis end)
Crawling along under those low walls around the reservoir is a pain! – I agree here too – I have been working on raising these to head height with lower gaps here and there.
The hut with the ammo and health in on the dam will have a broken roof so this area won’t be so easy to hold – by either team.

The train
Wider doors for easier access – this will be done – although because of the relative safety of players inside the train I don’t think it should be too easy to get on board.
Im making a clip to stop players from accidentally stepping up onto the control ledge.
Am also experimenting with a big snow-plough blade for the front – might give the whole thing a tougher/nastier, more stubborn presence.
Am extending the construction area to include the back.
Weird things do happen with grenades etc. and moving entities – not much I can do about this im afraid – if you’re axis consider yourself lucky, allies – try harder at chucking timed grenades.

Signage
The spawn changes and tunnelesque nature of the map can make it a bit confusing for new players to it – but it is a simple layout. - I’ll make some more obvious signage.

Other bits and bobs – these are too many to mention 

It’s occurred to me that I don’t know how to make constructible mgs! Will look into it

Thanks again all

Look forward to shooting you on the river sometime 

Neil aka mrfin aka bollini